Ann: You were talking about when Christ comes again, that it might be an energetic and not a person. Even in the time of Jesus, if Jesus was on the side of a hill, and he was talking to three thousand people-and that was just counting the men and not the women and children, so it might have been five thousand people-he definitely did not talk to them directly, because they couldn't have heard him. So I've always seen it as if the Holy Spirit fell on everyone, or the Spirit fell on them and they were lifted, and they knew that something profound had happened.
Ron: Just so! It's interesting that you should say that. At the Sermon on the Mount, people could not possibly have heard Him speak. When I saw a reenactment of that sermon on TV I said, "Aha! That's why I was given the column of light as a healer and teacher." As you know, the Column of Light is the result of invoking spiritual grace or the Holy Spirit. This invoked energetic, or light column can encompass a huge area and that energy would lift all the people to a place of wholeness or bliss consciousness. We replicate this energy in our OLHT Schools, as you know. I don't know if it has reached the intensity of what Christ did, but god is accessible to us all and I know that in our groups, when that energy is running, people reach a very high and pure state. They're not thinking about their laundry lists, the rent or their physical bodies. A very powerful force brings them into a place of open heartedness, and warmth of being and of feeling profoundly connected to themselves, one-another and the universe. If that was what Jesus was doing on the Mount I would not be surprised. This is a beautiful healing tool that has been given to all of us by Spirit. It may be that this energetic is the vehicle of the Second Coming.
Ann: Have you had any profound spiritual experiences connected to a great sickness or connected to the death of someone you loved or to seeing death?
Ron: In 1981, I had a 103-degree fever and did not sleep for eleven days. It came on spontaneously and every time I closed my eyes, I saw either past-life death pictures (pictures of myself dying in one or more of my past lives) or I was with a fifteen-foot-tall Blue Angelic Being, flying past the planets, through the universe, with intense speed, accompanied by light streaks and light shows. I later learned that my kundalini had been activated. This kundalini energy would shoot up my spine and I would shoot out of my body and would be out there flying. While watching Jodi Foster's movie Contact, where she's flying through these light streams was exactly like my experience in 1981. Seeing the movie, I got cold chills saying, "Yes, that's what it really looks like." I had my kundalini turned on and had a supreme energy clean out for eleven days. That was a spiritual 'illness' related experience. When it was happening, I remember thinking that instead of a life review before death, I was having a 'past life' review before death. And I thought I was either dying, going crazy or both. I had a few other experiences with internal winds (intense sounds in the ears) and with heat and fire, flying and so forth, but that eleven days, ranks one of as the most incredible experiences ever and it resulted in my loosing twenty-five pounds!
All my friends thought that I was really crazy in that time, and I couldn't help but agree with them. That experience came on spontaneously and I treasure it as a spiritual gift, an epic cleansing that would take me through the rest of my life, less encumbered by past-life energies in my kundalini channels. It was an extraordinarily interesting and deep, deep cleansing.
Ann: Did you feel a difference in your own life after that?
Ron: Everything was energetically lighter; my face looked a bit different. I felt more relaxed. Many things were different. I cleared out the residues of hundreds of past lives.
Ann: Did you go to a doctor?
Ron: I called a doctor that I knew to get some pills to help me to sleep or to find out if I was dying or what. I started telling him my story and saw by his face that there was nothing he could or would do for me, so I thanked him and left.
Ann: I know that you practice meditation on a regular basis. Can you tell me a little bit about that?
Ron: I think the greatest gift anyone can have is a daily meditation! Meditation is learning how to come into a very silent place and listen to the indwelling God-that was Edgar Casey's definition. Casey said, 'Meditation is listening to God, and prayer is talking to God". In our OLHT School that you have attended, I created a process to teach 'practices' that strengthen and clear the energy field, leading us into a place of meditation. Grounded meditation allows us to feel our entire body and our connection to the Earth. I also strongly recommend doing daily practices. The six sacred healing practices include, meditation, visualization, sound-work, breath-work, movement and sacred ceremony. Any practice that brings us into a deep and quiet meditative place is a good one. Listening to our heartbeat, and watching our breath move in and out, while sitting in the space between the breaths, called Vipassina, is an excellent practice. Chanting, breath-work or movement gets one into the silent space too. Getting into the silent space is the primary goal. And spending time in "Silence" is a powerful place of deep receptive personal healing and spiritual information and/or guidance.
The other day I had a student here and was teaching her the practice of whirling and I spontaneously jumped up and started whirling too. The energy was so strong I couldn't help but whirl. Sometimes in the morning I'll whirl for about ten minutes, then move into a sitting meditation. Ten minutes of whirling is especially good when in a hurry. In fact, it's very beautiful. I also very much like using a series of breath techniques. Harley Swiftdeer, a Native American shamanic teacher of mine taught a series of 10 beautiful breath techniques. I'll often do five or six of these different breaths. This also ushers me into that wonderful place of silence. It's important to get into that special space every day and the tools we use may include a wide range of practices to hold our interest and keep us fresh. As long as we do something that we love, something that brings us into that connection with God the creator, opening our heart and bringing us into that flow, that's golden!!
Ann: You dance and do movement; I was wondering-if somebody is really into basketball or something like that, and they are just going full out, they must be opening every circuit in their body, right?
Ron: Absolutely right. If you can get into the rhythm, into the dance, that's it! I'm sure many athletes get into that place, especially runners. Runners get into a space where they are feeling like they are flying, talking to their legs, setting various paces. It's an amazing space. Can you tell that I was a runner? I've guided the energy through every part of my body, developing an energetic flow where all becomes silence. I was a runner for many years and that was the something that was most incredible. Also, bicycling-I would bicycle into Armstrong woods, and other redwood forests in Northern California, moving into a deep meditative space, riding the bicycle and smelling the pine scent, seeing the shafts of light coming through the trees. Magnificent! All of these things are meditative practices. The most important thing is to connect with that very deep, beautiful meditative level, allowing God's messages to come through to us. Whatever we're told to do, do it! It's important to come to a place of "beingness", and beingness is developed and evolves through meditation and connecting to Spirit on a daily basis.
Ann: I know when I talk about spiritual things, people say, "How can you tell the difference between listening to your ego, and having a mystical experience-like hearing something that is both internal and external, that you know is not your ego?" How can you help people to discern the difference?
Ron: Well, that's one of the most difficult things to do. I would say that when we are thinking about what we need to do, it's our ego talking. But if you get to the place where the voice is coming to you and gives you information that your mind does not know, then it's Spirit speaking, not ego. We have to go to the place where the information is flowing from a higher source than our intellect. Our intellect is the dominator of the ego. Because the intellect is based on empirical experience, saying, "Do this or that will happen, and I can prove to you that if you don't do this, that will happen." This is the intellect saying, "I know what life is like, I can replicate experiences, so trust me." When you wake up in the middle of the night, and our inner voice is saying, "Take action on this!" it's energy coming from Spirit telling us what we must do. When it's an absolute directive and we're compelled to do it. That's Spirit guiding us!
Ann: Is a spiritual community important for you personally?
Ron: Yes, it is, but not the way spiritual community has been expressed up to this point. I have friends who run communities, and I've visited many other communities. What I've seen is that there are often pecking orders, from the top down, whether a community is centered on a yogi, an agriculture project or a guru or other focal points. I visited the Da Love Ananda community in Calistoga County, CA, in 1985. Da Love preached celibacy, yet he had ten wives! He told his people they couldn't look one another in the eye with feeling, because that feeling was to be directed only to him. I heard this, felt the un-ease within the community and knew, "I don't want to live here!" What I seek in a spiritual community is still in process of development. I see need for community as a network of people across the country or the world, who hold certain ideals and levels of energy, and work with putting their love into action making things happen. This rings of spirituality and community. I don't feel that living with a group of people works for me, because I need to be close to nature, and to work, practice daily meditations, teach, give healing sessions and to develop an array of projects in my own time and at my own pace, without being disturbed. I find traditional community difficult, but it certainly works for many. I spent time teaching at Rajneesh Humaniversity in Holland and saw and felt how that ashram worked. I visited the Mukdananda ashram in Northern California and Sri Ramana Maharshi's and Sai Baba's Ashrams in India too. To me, spirituality is having a continual direct communication from a Living Spirit and developing an ever strengthening and growing commitment to following this inner guidance. Surrendering to Spirit and following ones destiny and bliss, with support, networking, creativity and love is my idea of community.
Ann: Do you believe that when you come to the earth you come because it is a school? Because there is some teaching that we are doing on our spiritual journey?
Ron: Oh yes! I first heard that concept from Bucky Fuller in the late 60's. He called this place "Starship Earth". I do believe that this is a schoolhouse. I just answered e-mail to a student in Berlin. She's been having dreams of Nazi persecution in a past life. She was told by a fellow student that she signed up for this sort of experience in this incarnation, and that she knew about it, as spirit, beforehand. She said she was sick of hearing this kind of nonsense. She asked what I had to say about it. I said that as spirit, we make choices to incarnate to learn life's lessons on Earth. We don't choose the specifics of the life or the way that the lessons are going to be given to us. We choose the number of essential lessons and the potential extra credit lessons that we may have opportunity to learn before this life is completed. We have no control over the mechanics. Most interestingly, in spirit we have no contact with earthly emotions and so, decisions on what we choose to take on in life may be bolder before we experience incarnation. We do know that our life lessons will facilitate our growth and movement along our unfolding spiritual path. Yet we don't know if our lessons make us potential concentration camp inmates, or that we may become abused children, etc. All we know is that we have free will to make our life choices. When we get into the body and start having to deal with emotions, it makes it much more difficult to deal with life's tragedies and problems. As St. Paul said, "It's not what you say that kills you, it's what you withhold." Life lessons have great emotional costs, releasing emotions allow us to integrate life lessons more easily, so that we can move on and grow spiritually. This is easier said than done. However, this is a schoolhouse and we are learning how to bring the perfection of Spirit into the physical form.
Ann: So you believe in past lives and then what? When you die, if you had a good life do you go on a certain way, or if you've been a miserable person do you have to come back as a dog?
Ron: I think dogs are great! A friend of mine said he wanted to come back as a pink poodle in Miami on the end of a diamond leash.
When we get to the point where we've learned all the lessons we're ready to learn in this lifetime, we decide, "Enough, I'm done. I'm tired out." Then we give it up and have a life review and see how many people we've helped, how many people we've hurt and what's next to learn. We then make the choice about whether we want to come back and attempt to heal the parts that haven't yet been healed. And we are the ones who judge ourselves! When leaving the body, we are one with God and we, as God's instrument, as God's extension, see what we need to heal and improve. Later we make the choice, "Yes, I want to go back as the doctor, the dancer, the whatever or not." That's the cycle of coming back. "I'm going to come back as a football hero and be carried on the shoulders of all my teammates. I'm going to right the wrongs of what I saw happening in this lifetime." The problem is that we still have to make our choices on earth, and we have another opportunity to screw them up. When we are out of body we see two people with whom we have spiritual agreements, our future parents. We have an agreement or contract, with one or the other, and we see that they can teach us something and that we can help them with something. So, we then come back through the cycle of reincarnation.
Ann: Where does a new soul come from?
Ron: Different planets or star systems. Perhaps a particular soul hasn't been on this planet before. There are lots of galaxies with lots of solar systems, and Beings matriculate through them. If they decide they want to come to this planet to learn earthly lessons they come here. They're first timers-they're not quite sure where their bodies are; they're not quite sure how everything works on their bodies or their minds. Old souls are beings that have incarnated on this planet many, many, many times. They've been in different parts of God's kingdom and choose this one. And not all lives are material, flesh and blood. Some forms are non-physical others have different chemical bases. This is the planet of the golden mean and the number 5, meaning we have two legs, two arms and a head and a carbon chemical base. Different planets have different systems, and coming into this kind of a "body" is new for new souls-often it's a little awkward. Perhaps you know someone like that?
Ann: Are you getting a sense as you travel?
Ron: I really do believe so yes. What I am sensing is that the infrastructure for instantaneous, worldwide communication and change is in place, and people are starting to avail themselves of it. The cruelty and the dictators still exist and still play the same old games. But this way of being is changing. There are many souls attempting to live their lives in a way that will help the species to evolve. The old ways of being, where the individual considers himself the center of the world are fast disappearing. We are all evolving towards the embodiment of the pure unconditional love and goodness of the creator energy.
An In-Depth Biographical Interview with Ron Lavin by Rev. Ann Emerson, March 7, 2002 (Continued)